Secret History of the Bicycle

Re: Secret History of the Bicycle

feeds@yuku.com (RailRider) — Thu, 13 Jan 2011 12:40:52 PST

I agree! If someday there is new evidence to support something else I am willing to take a look. Of course it will have to fit with the Penguin and the Stingray evidence we have now. Just as the Penguin changed no facts based on the Stingray History. It only debunks the Myth's.

Re: Secret History of the Bicycle

feeds@yuku.com (John Brain) — Fri, 24 Dec 2010 17:42:07 PST

Whats interesting is that Al Fritz said to Liz Fried ( StingRay book author) that he only heard about the Huffy bike long after the StingRay came to market. He obviously did not have the full story on the Huffy made bike and assumed (wrongly) that it was a failure. We now know that Huffy was hired to make the "Penguin" bike by the John T. Bill distribution company in California. After John T. Bill got its first shipment of the bikes, Huffy refused to sell them any more. Not because the bike style was a loser, but because Huffy felt they could make more money "without" John T. Bill & Co. Pete Mole of John T. Bill said he made the mistake of trusting Huffy not to take the idea out from underneath him. But this is what they essentially did. John T. Bill did not work out an exclusive deal for the bike style with Huffy, which meant that Huffy was legally able to shut them out. John T. Bill then hired the Dayton Bicycle company to make...

Re: Secret History of the Bicycle

feeds@yuku.com (RailRider) — Fri, 24 Dec 2010 15:27:58 PST

I also find it ironic that the only info we based an entire hobby on was one mans story, Al Fritz! His stories have been held high and considered as good as the ten Commandments of bicycles. Nobody was really questioning the stories, and there was little documents presented. Yet nobody ever asked for more proof and nobody ever wanted more evidence about the Stingray. I find it funny that we have Pete Mole's stories, plus tons of fact based evidence to back his story and people still do not believe it. lol

Re: Secret History of the Bicycle

feeds@yuku.com (RailRider) — Fri, 24 Dec 2010 15:20:29 PST

I am new to the hobby and, as such, don't understand the bitterness between the factions involved. It doesn't serve the hobby and that is unfortunate. What is your take on this?

The real bitterness I feel is due to the long running Myth that has become a belief. Since the Schwinn Stingray has been so popular most feel it was the first. Now we have some evidence it was not all true and some do not want to believe it. So any mention of the Huffy Penguin becomes a debate about quality instead of the facts. I have no problem with this being proven wrong if somebody has more info, but the fact is nobody has any but are ready to make up stuff attack the Huffy, or just get mean about it. I feel the Huffy was a big part of the puzzle, and no matter the quality it was proven first. This shuts down some of the Myth. Eventually we will a true example.

Re: Secret History of the Bicycle

feeds@yuku.com (RailRider) — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 20:32:19 PST

Yeah my bike is a clone of the Penguin.

I don't think Schwinn copied the Huffy but I am sure they had heard about the Penguin by the time they started their Stingray. They had an easier job really. Toss some high rise handle bars and banana seat on their 20" childs Typhoon and its a Stingray.

Re: Secret History of the Bicycle

feeds@yuku.com (NickD) — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 19:46:58 PST

Railrider: From reading John B.'s article, I assume that the Penguin in your pic is a "recreation" or "tribute" bike? Very nice, regardless!

John B.: Your articles are exceptionally well done. Thanks for sharing them and getting the truth out! I can't imagine the time/research it took to gather all this information.

Please correct me if I misinterpreted something, but didn't both Peter Mole (John T. Bill Co and Huffy) and Al Fritz (Schwinn) both, independently from each other, hear about the SoCal craze and try to bring a product to market to take advantage of it? As it turns out Huffy was first but Schwinn was committed as well. I didn't get the impression it was a race to market ? It doesn't sound like there was bitterness involved, only business. It also seems like Peter was hosed over by Huffy when they came out with a competing bike later. Since he had no manufacturing capability and didn't have an exclusive contract, Huffy left him out in the cold even though...

Re: Secret History of the Bicycle

feeds@yuku.com (RailRider) — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 02:39:46 PST

Re: Secret History of the Bicycle

feeds@yuku.com (John Brain) — Tue, 16 Feb 2010 02:35:48 PST

NickD wrote:
What has been the response to this revelation from the Schwinn "community"?? Sorry if this has been discussed before. I read thru lots of older threads and haven't found much.

Nick

I'm sure for most Schwinn collectors it just helped them understand the real history behind the high rise bike phenomenon. Most had hoped the StingRay was first, but it didn't come as a shock that it wasn't.

For some of course it was a big disappointment to find out that the StingRay introduced nothing new to the market. Many die-hard Schwinn guys were startled to learn that the StingRay looked nearly identical to the earlier Huffy Penguin - which in turn caused them to question certain longstanding beliefs they had, about whether the StingRay had really introduced anything new.

There was a certain amount of Schwinn mythology that had built up over...

Re: Secret History of the Bicycle

feeds@yuku.com (RailRider) — Mon, 15 Feb 2010 14:52:00 PST

Most try to suppress any talk of this, or ignore it and figure they can keep saying the same old story they always told and people will forget this article ever existed.

Many of us are actually Schwinn guys who also collect other models. we just choose to believe fact over make believe.

Re: Secret History of the Bicycle

feeds@yuku.com (NickD) — Mon, 15 Feb 2010 12:13:58 PST

What has been the response to this revelation from the Schwinn "community"?? Sorry if this has been discussed before. I read thru lots of older threads and haven't found much.

Nick

Re: Secret History of the Bicycle

feeds@yuku.com (RailRider) — Sat, 02 Jan 2010 15:17:38 PST

http://bikerodnkustom5.ho...ainhistory63_muscle.html

Re: Secret History of the Bicycle

feeds@yuku.com (John Brain) — Sat, 22 Aug 2009 20:41:44 PST

I was away at the big kustom bike meet in Holland for a while, but now I'm back.

I'm working hard at getting the articles finished off, I still have to do a number of color illustrations.

I think I mentioned in my '62 page that Bob Persons went to Holland or Sweden in the late 50's and found the Polo styled seats. I have heard mention of other people owning early Polo style seats that came from Holland. A few distribution firms marketed non Persons Polo style seats in 63 -64 on the aftermarket because of the tremendous interest, but these are very rare. I used to buy banana seats in the early 70's that were made in Holland. I have a picture of a very early Polo style seat made by a company named "United". Yes, although Al Fritz mentions "Sweden" in the Fried book as the place that Persons found the long seats, I thought Holland was the more likely place they came from, and that's why I mentioned it in the '62 page....

Re: Secret History of the Bicycle

feeds@yuku.com (RailRider) — Tue, 28 Jul 2009 11:33:13 PST

No matter the turn out I think it will be a fun article, even if Schwinn and Huffy came out public on the same day.
I think some will not be happy with a same year production. Some may need a 1-2 year before Schwinn to be convinced. You watch, if this article comes out with a non-schwinn as the first bike it will be argued and put under the microscope.

The sad thing in my mind is nobody has ever proven Schwinn was the first high riser made. In order to actually prove something you take all the facts that can be found and then make a educated assumption. The facts have never really been presented other than the year the first Stingray was released. Now all these years later we are trying to reverse the untruths that have now become the common beliefs.

Re: Secret History of the Bicycle

feeds@yuku.com (MuscleBikeNut) — Tue, 28 Jul 2009 02:26:31 PST

The Brain has kept us in an state of excruciatingly intolerable suspense over this mystery. However, I will offer up this tidbit of information. 6 years ago, during the nastiest most bitter divorce battle anyone could ever imagine, I boxed up over 100 muscle bikes in non-labeled bike boxes and tucked them far away in an undisclosed storage warehouse, hoping to save my collection from a forced sale in settlement. Only one time since then have I been back to that storage unit, when I opened about 15 of the boxes (to find the Murray Mark II Thunderball Eliminator). The rest of the boxes remain unopened, and I really can't even remember everything I have in there.

BUT I CAN TELL YOU THIS. THERE IS A HUFFY SOLO-POLO-SEAT HI-RISE HANDLEBARRED DRAGSTER IN THERE SOMEWHERE WITH AN "H3xxxxx" PUNCHED ON THE DROP-OUT. And I DO remember that the seat on that bike is a (pre-Persons) solo-polo seat that was manufactured in Holland by Fisher. The original...

Re: Secret History of the Bicycle

feeds@yuku.com (RailRider) — Mon, 27 Jul 2009 12:30:46 PST

Hey, any progress on the new article yet?

Re: Secret History of the Bicycle

feeds@yuku.com (John Brain) — Wed, 01 Jul 2009 11:13:30 PST

On the planet of the ape hangers

Re: Secret History of the Bicycle

feeds@yuku.com (ClassicMuscleBikeForum) — Tue, 30 Jun 2009 12:53:58 PST

I heard High Rise bicycles evolved from monkey...bars!

Re: Secret History of the Bicycle

feeds@yuku.com (RailRider) — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 17:28:08 PST

The Big Bang Theory huh?

Re: Secret History of the Bicycle

feeds@yuku.com (John Brain) — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 17:12:36 PST

RailRider wrote:
Yeah, some of those guys get upset easily, good thing they have their security blankets in the upper right hand conrer! lol (its the report post tab)

The funny thing is I used to consider myself a Schwinn Stingray collector, and never took the non-Schwinn very serious either. I think one day I decided I was a bicycle collector instead, and never looked back.

I guess to some they have only The First Church of Schwinnism as their religion, and I am just a non-denominationalist!

There may just be a cataclysmic revelation coming about the genesis and origin story.

Re: Secret History of the Bicycle

feeds@yuku.com (RailRider) — Thu, 25 Jun 2009 02:40:44 PST

Yeah, some of those guys get upset easily, good thing they have their security blankets in the upper right hand corner! lol (its the report post tab)

The funny thing is I used to consider myself a Schwinn Stingray collector, and never took the non-Schwinn very serious either. I think one day I decided I was a bicycle collector instead, and never looked back.

I guess to some they have only The First Church of Schwinnism as their religion, and I am just a non-denominationalist!

Secret History of the Bicycle

feeds@yuku.com (RailRider) — Thu, 04 Jun 2009 11:55:42 PST

I saw this on here a few years ago but couldn't find it in the search. Has anyone read this article by John Brain? Its the History of the bicycle, and is several volumes with original newspaper ad's documenting the "High Rise" Custom made bikes starting around 1958, and each volume builds to 1962 where the Muscle Bike fad seemed to finally make corporate attention! In the next issue its said to reveal who made the first true assembly line Banana seat/Ape Hanger bicycle.

Anyone interested in finding out the true roots of the Muscle Bike, or (K) custom bikes check this out!

http://bikerodnkustom5.homestead.com/brainhistory58.html